Xeno (WMF)

Message language

Hello Heno (WMF), thanks for the information. As we already received the same text in Italian on our Community portal dedicated to the Ligurian language (Genoese), could you please replace the text you placed with the original text in English? This is actually the Community portal in English (yes, we have two, one in English and one in Ligurian/Genoese. Unfortunately, the Italian guys only place texts in Italian because apparently no one speaks or writes in Ligurian/Genoese). Thanks a lot in advance! All the best, Luensu1959

This was from 18 August 2021 - copied here from user page - sorry I didn't see this until now! All is sorted since. Xeno (WMF) (discuscioìn) 04:05, 13 arv 2022 (CEST)

Hi, we created the Community Portal page to receive messages in English. Our other community page is the Pòrtego da Comunitæ for messages in Ligurian (Genoese). Italians who cannot write in Genoese may write in Italian. Could you please set your default language to English whenever you write to Wiki Ligure? We are not dependent on Italian or Wiki IT as our community is spread around the world. All the best, --Luensu1959 (discuscioin) 15:33, 25 òtô 2021 (CEST)

[@ Luensu1959]: Thank you for the context. MassMessage automagically selects the fallback language, so we will have to deliver there manually to avoid Italian; could you advise: is it preferable to write to Pòrtego da Comunitæ in Italian, to Wiki Ligure in English, or both? Xeno (WMF) (discuscioin) 15:47, 25 òtô 2021 (CEST)

Thanks for your explanation. As Italian admin/users usually inform us thru the Pòrtego da Comunitæ in Italian, you only need to send messages in English to our Community Portal (maybe you can change the fallback language and set it to English in that case?). --Luensu1959 (discuscioin) 10:55, 26 òtô 2021 (CEST)

[@ Luensu1959] Hmm, since the fallback language is set somewhere that affects more than just our messages, we will have to send the English message manually. (Unless the entire project decided to swap the fallback from it to en, that would require a phabricator task I think.) Xeno (WMF) (discuscioin) 03:40, 28 òtô 2021 (CEST)

I see what you mean. It worked perfectly until a few weeks ago, then probably it was always done manually? If so, I would appreciate your efforts in the future for the few communications that we receive from you. Thanks in advance, --Luensu1959 (discuscioin) 09:05, 28 òtô 2021 (CEST)

[@ Luensu1959] Yes- it seems so, either it is delivered manually or there wasn't an available Italian translation. I've created a separate "English no fallback" for pages that invite conversations in English for my mass messages. Keep in mind anyone else using other lists (like m:Distribution list/Global message delivery) might accidentally send an Italian message if that translation is present (not sure if there's a way for a page to signal the preferred language to MassMessage - that would be nice!). Xeno (WMF) (discuscioin) 04:12, 30 òtô 2021 (CEST)

[@ Luensu1959] Ciao, normalmente mi occupo io della distribuzione dei messaggi riguardanti la strategia e posto le comunicazioni in italiano al Pòrtego da comunitæ, mi sento sempre un po' in colpa a farlo in italiano, leggo e capisco il ligure ma non voglio nemmeno provare a scriverlo, probabilmente ridereste per mesi. Alcuni messaggi vengono distribuiti a mano in tutti i progetti, altri vengono distribuiti a mano solo nei progetti che superano un dato numero di utenti attivi e con il mass messenger nei progetti rimanenti. In precedenza questo avveniva per lo più in inglese, ora WMF ha un team di facilitatori nelle varie lingue che traducono i messaggi e quindi anche quelli col mass messenger ora sono spesso in italiano. Se però ritieni che sia meglio per voi ricevere tutte le comunicazioni in inglese e ridurre il volume di "italiano" possiamo fare anche così. --Civvi (WMF) (discuscioin) 17:23, 30 òtô 2021 (CEST)

[@ Civvi (WMF)] Hi, thanks for your offer. Basically, it's the same that I was offered by Xeno. As you wrote in Italian, I wonder if he got that right. Anyway, thanks to you both for your efforts. Things will be better when we will have Genoese in Google translator! All the best, --Luensu1959 (discuscioin) 14:27, 31 òtô 2021 (CET)

Universal Code of Conduct updates

• User:Luensu1959: Thanks again for your hospitality and work on this project, I enjoy facilitating here. I wanted to make sure local eligible users were aware of their opportunity to vote in Speçiale:SondaggioSicuro/vote/378 m:Special:SecurePoll/vote/391, mentioned at Wikipedia:Community portal (comunicaçioìn in ingléize)#Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement guidelines ratification voting open from 7 to 21 March 2022 and Wikipedia:Pòrtego da comunitæ#Votazione sulle linee guida per l'applicazione dell'UCoC (posted by User:Superpes15). Perhaps User:N.Longo and User:Arbenganese are interested. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions about it.

  I recognize also there is now some materials on Meta-wiki lacking in other bridging languages in some cases. If that is presenting any challenge, please let me know, and I can seek for additional assistance. Xeno (WMF) (discuscioìn) 03:37, 16 màr 2022 (CET)

Thanks again, I'll make sure that my fellow admins on Wiki Ligure whom you just mentioned are aware of this opportunity. All the best, --Luensu1959 (discuscioìn) 09:04, 16 màr 2022 (CET)

Hi and thanks a lot for your work and your effort to reflect the international community of this wiki! About the Universal Code of Conduct, as you've probably already noticed, lij.wiki completely lacks of a "local structure" about topics that will be regulated in the UCoC (and, due to its size, atm I don't think it's worth introducing it); this is the reason why we'll closely monitor the so-called "phase 3" in order to introduce stricter regulations, if necessary, and to be sure to comply with the new ones. Because of our situation I'm pretty sure there won't be any problems with the new set of rules and I hope this will be also the right opportunity to introduce some local policies on topics not covered by the UCoC. Thanks again, alêgri! N.Longo (discuscioìn) 09:35, 17 màr 2022 (CET)

Luensu1959 & N.Longo thank you both for the response and sharing your thoughts. I know that one of the motivations of the universal project was so that users of communities like this wouldn't have to spending time also coming up with all the policies all over again. (It was noticed that most of them are busy...writing articles!)

Just wanted to note the local SecurePoll link had the old timing, though users can still vote via m:Special:SecurePoll/vote/391. Xeno (WMF) (discuscioìn) 03:46, 21 màr 2022 (CET)

Thanks for reminding! I just voted. Alegri (so long)! --Luensu1959 (discuscioìn) 10:47, 21 màr 2022 (CET)

Really appreciate it! Alegri =) Xeno (WMF) (discuscioìn) 04:05, 13 arv 2022 (CEST)

• Luensu1959, N.Longo, Arbenganese, I wonder if you have time to briefly respond to some or all of these questions. We are hoping to source input from administrators on smaller projects like this one. No need for lengthy responses - just hoping to get perspectives from a smaller project especially where (as N.Longo said) there's not much need for local structure. Thanks again for your work here, and your participation. Xeno (WMF) (discuscioìn) 16:17, 15 zùg 2022 (CEST)

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Would you be interested in some form of training about the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC) and its guidelines? Do you think that kind of thing should be mandatory for administrators? What would be a good format for the training (live courses, online module, self-study, just reading a wiki page about it, etc.)?

(More context in English or Italian language)

• I'd really appreciate some form of training (imho it would be better not only live courses for "logistical" reasons) since, in most cases, when I search what to do/how to react/etc in a certain situation I take a look primarly in other wikis but clearly not all of them have the same way of dealing with the problem. Plus, just reacting to the very first comment in the English discussion, if the UCoC training is going that way I would like to see that - at least for smaller wiki ("smaller" intended as without its own branch of WMF since, from what I understand, WMF could take care of it) - the user is free to choose the course to follow and that it is not implemented something based on the language "fallback" system, which is already a source of several problems. N.Longo (discuscioìn) 09:18, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)
• I agree, too, on some form of training, preferably online modules. Reading wiki pages or other kinds of self-study would not yield good results.--Luensu1959 (discuscioìn) 11:35, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)

• Personally I didn't follow the voting on March, so a training form could be a great opportunity to understand how UCoC works and even to learn the way in which we can apply it on small projects like this one. My proposals about the format wherewith do this "formation" are basically those already mentioned (but I can see the pov of Longo about live courses): starting with an effective information campaign, I think, can reach a larger wikimedian "audience".--Arbenganese (discuscioìn) 11:45, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)

Do you think administrators and other advanced right holders should be required to "acknowledge" or affirm the UCoC?

(More context in English or Italian language)

• I sense that this might be one of the most controversial points but tbh I've no particular opinion on this topic, I'll see which direction the discussion towards the final decision will take. N.Longo (discuscioìn) 09:18, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)
• My first reaction is "yes" as to acknowledging the UCoC. Let's see how the discussion develops.--Luensu1959 (discuscioìn) 11:35, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)

• I agree with the importance of the UCoC, but Idk if this affirmation will become a strong measure. It depends on the way the acknowledge will be applied.-Arbenganese (discuscioìn) 11:45, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)

When a user is restricted due to a violation of the UCoC, should they always have the right to respond? Are there cases where they should not be given that opportunity?

(More context in English or Italian language)

• Absolutely yes (although I can think of several cases where it would just be a waste of time), I consider this a fundamental user right and imho it must be done centrally and not locally (for all wikis) otherwise it could be completely useless (as well as complicated in projects like ours). I think it will be a huge problem if the hypothetical "central committee" decides differently from the local community, anyway (please correct me if I'm wrong) this has not been decided yet and then general principles can already be established. N.Longo (discuscioìn) 09:18, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)
• Yes, in general. I actually prefer to have things settled at a local level before a "central committee" is involved. Fact is, in many cases violators have been ravaging thru different wikis, so they are known to many admins.--Luensu1959 (discuscioìn) 11:35, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)

• One of the cornerstone of Wikipedia (and more in general of all Wikimedia projects) is the collaboration between the users, so, wherever possible, they have to try the dialogue. If circumstances don't allow a constructive discussion, administrators will take their decision. Imho in those cases synergy between the local project and the central committee it's fundamental.--Arbenganese (discuscioìn) 11:45, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)

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There is no right or wrong answers here. A committee is working to revise the guidelines and they want perspectives from many projects (see Wikipedia:Community portal (comunicaçioìn in ingléize)#Next steps on the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC) Enforcement guidelines for additional details). Feel free to invite other users to respond also. Really appreciate it! Xeno (WMF) (discuscioìn) 16:17, 15 zùg 2022 (CEST)

Hi and thanks again for your effort, unfortunately I'm quite busy irl and I haven't followed the latest discussions as much as I'd like. Anyway I've really appreciated this short survey, I hope my answers are useful in some way and that it's all clear (pretty sure it's not written in such a good English :/). Alêgri! N.Longo (discuscioìn) 09:18, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)

Thx 4 your efforts, let's keep in touch. Alegri! --Luensu1959 (discuscioìn) 11:35, 16 zùg 2022 (CEST)

Salüi and thanks for your work!--Arbenganese (discuscioìn)

Luensu1959, N.Longo, Arbenganese, thanks for your valuable feedback! It has been forwarded to the revision drafting committee. Alêgri! Xeno (WMF) (discuscioìn) 18:55, 11 lùg 2022 (CEST)

online conference

Hi, I saw your email. The time is good (CET), please remind me that very day /I'm on vacation, will be back in time the day before=. Alegri! --Luensu1959 (discuscioìn) 11:20, 23 arv 2022 (CEST)

User:Luensu1959: Will do. One of the earlier conversations starts now: https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/82114230052 Xeno (WMF) (discuscioìn) 15:58, 23 arv 2022 (CEST)